I.E.P and 504 Plan
On today's episode 80, we talk with Ms. Annette Graves, as well as Katrina VanBuren from Family Engagement in Special Education, which is part of Arc Tennessee. We discuss IEP vs 504 plans, FAPE, LRE, PLEP, accommodation vs modification, tests for eligibility determination of placement, and how to reach a resolution amidst disagreement.
Edited Transcript
Marsh Naidoo (00:13):
Welcome to the Raising Kellan Podcast. My name is Marsh Naidoo and I blog at www.raisingkellan.org where we curate resources for parents raising children with disabilities. As always, remember, the information provided on this podcast is purely informational, and if you are seeking advice for your specific situation to contact a trained professional. On today's episode 80, we talk with Ms. Annette Graves, as well as Katrina VanBuren from Family Engagement in Special Education, which is part of Arc Tennessee. So grab your cup of coffee, put your feet up, and get ready for some awesome conversation.
Marsh Naidoo (01:04):
Today I'm joined by Ms. Annette Graves and Katrina VanBuren, who are with Family Engagement in Special Education which is actually part of Arc Tennessee. I am so grateful for both you ladies joining us this morning on the Raising Kellan Podcast.
Katrina VanBuren (01:27):
Thank you for having us.
Marsh Naidoo (01:29):
Before we head into Family Engagement, I would just like to know a little about you ladies as well, Ms. Annette Graves. Can you just tell us a little bit about how you got into special education?
Annette Graves (01:46):
Thank you very much. First of all I'm a 35-year former educator. I've been a teacher in regular education and special education as well where I taught inclusion classes. I have a brother with intellectual disability and then also I have a granddaughter that's on the spectrum. So I'm just very passionate about helping parents and helping students to be the best they could be. And I'm passionate about finding resources that are available for parents as well as the students to maximize their potential and empower them to be the best person, the best student that they can be.
Marsh Naidoo (02:27):
Thank you. Katrina, what about yourself?
Katrina VanBuren (02:31):
My story's kind of the same. I have a son who has a disability. He has autism went into education starting from that when I started to see his struggles. And so I just wanted to learn whatever I needed to do to make sure that he was, you know, equipped with what he needed throughout his life. So I went to school, got my master's in education taught in Shelby County Public Schools for four years and then went back to school for special education leadership. Got my Ed. S with that. I also have a sister who has intellectual disability, so like I'm always like her side person, <laugh> and she's always connected with me one way or another. And so that has been my connection. But mainly once I had a child with a disability, it just went full force from there, you know, just trying to make sure that he has what he need and, and long term it also helped me help other people cuz now I'm like Ms. Annette where I want to help families get the resources that they need as well.
Marsh Naidoo (03:41):
Ms Annette, can you tell us exactly what Family Engagements in Special Education is all about?
Annette Graves (03:51):
Right. Family Engagement in Special Education is a part of Art Tennessee. We are the bridge that brings families and the community and the state department together with resources and information. We do a lot of things to help our families to get more involved with a child's education. And one of the greatest things that we do is educate them with the resources that they need. We write family-friendly resources for our parents. You know, a lot of times when things come down from the State department, new laws are developed and come into play. We take that information, we write a family-friendly language and distribute that to the parents to make them aware of what they can do for their child and what things are available for their child. So we're like that bridge that brings families together to be more educated about the resources for their children and what's out there because so many things out there I think that families I may not be aware of.
Marsh Naidoo (04:52):
That's why I believe you guys are such a valuable resource. So you guys are not a state agency but actually part of Arc Tennessee or one of the branches of Arc Tennessee,
Katrina VanBuren (05:07):
Correct? We are grant-based working alongside of the Arc Tennessee and the Department of Education. Now there is an Arc like I'm pretty sure in every city <laugh>, every county. But we are the state one, the ArcTennessee.
Marsh Naidoo (05:26):
I know we are kind of heading into April and a lot of kids April and May might be a time period where a lot of kids have their IEPs coming up. So just to kind of touch and educate parents on that, what is an I E P and what is a 5 0 4 and how are they different from each other?
Katrina VanBuren (05:52):
Okay, so an IEP and a 5 0 4, many people may think it's the same. They both are an educational plan that is designed for your child that's needing support and services. But an IEP, which is an individual education plan, it's a legal document that outlines the special education services, some supports or anything that your child may need to thrive in school. The 5 0 4 plan is like a written plan that outlines some appropriate supports that a child may need to have equal access to the education environment. Again, any child can have either one. Now both of them goes under a different law. So when it comes to the I E P, it's protected under the Individuals with Disability Education Act or you'll hear I D E A and the 5 0 4 is protected under the section 5 0 4 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973.
(07:03):
So those two laws is what helps definesif your child would be getting a I E P or 5 0 4 with the I E P. If you go like deeper into the I D E A or go deeper into the law, it is to ensure that children have a free appropriate public education. So you'll hear fate F A P E, but that just means free appropriate public education. They want to ensure that all children with disabilities have access to that. And so the requirements that goes under their law, and like Ms. Annette said, sometimes it's long and in depth and you get kind of confused because there's so much reading that you have to do. But to pick out those core points one your child disability has to be affected by 13 categories. The I D E A has 13disability categories, and so you have to have one of those 13 categories and that disability must affect like their ability to learn or benefit from the general, general education curriculum.
(08:07):
And they need like a specialized instruction to make progress in the school on the other side with the 5 0 4 under section 5 0 4 Rehabilitation Act. So there are some requirements in that as well. And one of the things again is they want to make sure that child has equal access to the classroom so your child can have any disability. It doesn't have to be one of those 13, it could be any disability. If that disability interferes with their ability to learn in the general education classroom, and this can be from like learning or reading or communicating, like it can be wheelchair access, it can be any type of disability that your child may have that can possibly get a 5 0 4 plan. And so a child who doesn't qualify for an I E P can still have be able to get a 5 0 4 plan.
(09:08):
So the whole goal is just to ensure something is in place for the child to receive a supports that they need. A lot of times with the I E P there is more intensive type support, may need more intensive versus 5 0 4 could be, hey, I need wheelchair access, right to get into the classroom. It can be different things, but that's kind of like a breakdown of the two. Again, in the overall goal is just to make sure that they have a free appropriate public education. 5 0 4, you also have equal access to the classroom.
Marsh Naidoo (09:43):
I got you. So, and guys correct me if I'm wrong, but sorry, IEP is more fi mandated. That falls under idea that is more like an official document. Oh, your kid's diagnosis May four under one of those 13 categories.
Katrina VanBuren (10:02):
That's correct. And so the 5 0 4, the only other thing I didn't mention, as you just said, the I E P is federal we call legal binding document. They have different steps that has to be done, different things that has to be outlined in it. 5 0 4 plan actually doesn't even have to be written down. It just needs to be some type of communication with the parent or and the school so that they can get the appropriate accommodation. Many schools still do write it down that way that they can, everyone can be on one accord, but by law they do not have to write it down. So that is a, a good thing to make sure that many know there's not a specific template that the civil right law require.
Marsh Naidoo (10:51):
Okay, Ms. So as a parent I see that my child is struggling at school, what would some of the first steps be that I need to take in order to address that issue or get my child set up so that they can get the supports they need? What would be some of the first steps that I needed?
Annette Graves (11:18):
Well, some of the first steps that you would need that your child set up would be, first of all to have a meeting and talk with your child to current teacher. You would have to decide let em know your concerns and then perhaps get things set up for your child to have observations and some type of teacher will already had observations of your child, but you wanna do observations first and talking with the teacher. And after talking with your teacher and getting those observations done, then we can move into maybe setting up some type of testing for your child and then go from testing to the next level of you know, a complete physical examination of course. And then maybe discussing after the testing examination and observations discussing next step is maybe having an I E P meeting to see what the results are of all the data you've collected so far with your observations and with you know, preliminary testing.
Marsh Naidoo (12:19):
Now, you know, sometimes we kind of get overwhelmed when you are new to IEP and when you are new to 5 0 4, there's a whole lot of lingo that kind of gets thrown at you. And so if you guys don't mind giving us the 411 on some of these abbreviations. First, what is LRE
Katrina VanBuren (12:43):
Okay, so the LRE is the least restrictive environment. And when we talk about least restrictive environment, it's just pretty much saying what's the appropriate placement for the child. Of course, we have general education classroom and self-contained classroom. We got a resource where they do pullout. So it's so many different placements that could possibly happen. And so least restricted environment speaks on that where the child will spend their time when they're at school. And so every child is different. We can't say, Hey, make sure if you got an IEP you go on special education, make sure if you got a 5 0 4 you go and generate cuz every child is different. The data will tell you, the child's ability would tell you. So again, as Ms Annette said, after all of the testing is done and the testing has been reviewed and analyzed and the team has met together to go over that testing, that will talk about which LRE or least restricted environment the child will go into
Marsh Naidoo (13:50):
What does that P.L.E.P mean?
Annette Graves (13:52):
P L E P means present level of educational performance. Now the prep outlines the student's current performance in all areas. It will entail what can a student do? What areas are the student, is the student currently working or having difficulties? And the PLEP would also indicate the students areas of strength. And then lastly, it would indicate the students areas of difficulties were they struggling with what the challenges for that particular student. So it's just a present level of educational performance is a flip. Okay.
Marsh Naidoo (14:34):
What is the difference between an accommodation versus a modification?
Katrina VanBuren (14:41):
Okay, so accommodation and modification, again, those are two words that people use interchangeably but accommodate is the student will learn the material. Modification is what changes or how the student is taught or expected to learn. So for instance, accommodate if we are both doing math right and I need a calculator and you do not. So I'm accommodating of how, how I will learn it cuz I may need to meet the calculator modification is we're doing math, you are on multiplication and I may be on addition. So they're changing what is taught or what is expected for me to learn. And again, based on data, based on the child's data and disability that will determine the appropriate accommodation and modification. Again, that's not a one size fit all, everyone would not get the same thing. It just depends on what's needed for that specific child in their unique situation.
Marsh Naidoo (15:49):
So my question is this, when it comes to testing, what are some of the tests that are perhaps done on the school, at the school level as far as placement of your child's abilities?
Katrina VanBuren (16:09):
There will always be testing. There can be informal testing and that is where a teacher may have like observations that they're looking at or you know, may have checklists that they're doing to see what the child can do. Or they can be formal testing, which is the state testing that will determine, you know, what state testing that will take at the end of the year. Again, we have to base it off data and we know our children do plenty and all everything for us, but when they get into school it may be different. So they have to use other data than just what you, you as a parent or you as a family say that your child can do. I can use an example for my son. My son does addition here, but when he gets to school, he may not do that, you know, for them.
(17:00):
And that doesn't mean he doesn't know it. They have to go off the data that's right in front of him. They can't just go word of mouth because I could say, Hey, he knows how to do trigonometry and we could be lying. Right? So he coming together on Sunday or Friday, right? So they, they have to go there. And a parent's voice is important, please tell them, you know, what your child can do, but don't be upset or don't feel less of anything if they don't see it. Because, you know, our children do different when they may not be in front of us.
Annette Graves (17:30):
That's so true. That's good.
Marsh Naidoo (17:33):
Yes
Annette Graves (17:33):
Yeah, that's good. Cause sometimes not in a good mood that day, they don't feel like taking a test. But that's it's true about children.
Katrina VanBuren (17:41):
That's right.
Marsh Naidoo (17:43):
How do you seek resolution when there is disagreement on the team.?
Katrina VanBuren (17:59):
Speaking on empowerment, you have to advocate for your child. You have to say what you feel your child is needing or you know, if you are in disagreement, good thing about advocating for your child is don't argue when you arguing you're not getting to a solution. So you need to think about what the issue is. Talk with the, the teacher first, talk with the team together and see if you can come to a resolution. There may be conflict throughout their entire journey. I mean, to be honest, to be transparent, there may be some type of conflict throughout the entire journey. There may be some type of disagreement throughout the entire journey. But if you feel this is better, state your case of why you feel this would be better for your child.
(18:45):
And then a lot of time when you are talking and you're collaborating with each other, I mean, each one of us don't have the last and final answer. That's why we are a team. So that way we can hear what have you done, what have you done, you know, all the different things to come to a resolution. If that doesn't work you tried all the good thing, the positive thing and that doesn't work. Then they have something called your procedure safeguards. And what your procedure safeguards is, it tells you about your rights and it tells you if you don't agree here, what are my next steps to go from here? And so the procedure safeguards will outline your next step because you did your first step, which is, you know, we're talking, we, we as a team, we're trying to come to a conclusion, but if not, then you have to go to your procedure safeguards and go whatever your next step if you feel that is necessary. But hopefully as a team, y'all have got it, you know, came to a resolution as great for you and great for the school as well.
Annette Graves (19:46):
And may I add something? Yes. I like parents to know that you don't have to stand the IEP that day. If you don't agree with something in, in a child's IEP don't be rushed to sign that day. You can come back later when you wanna resolve the issue or sign the IEP, but you don't have to sign that day if you're not in agreement with what's going on.
Marsh Naidoo (20:08):
Thank you for that, Ms. Annette, from my standpoint as a parent, I just think that communication piece is so vital. Our teachers are providing value to our kids. I take my hat out because that is just not an easy job at all. Am at school, but also having some through at home as well.
Katrina VanBuren (20:49):
And I think good communication will be developed over time if you ensure that you are talking to your child's teacher and you know, just the team all the time, not just when it's a problem. You know, because that puts some type ofhostility or whatever between you. Cuz every time I talk there is a problem. You know, we've never talk when, hey, he just flipped today and I thought that was so fun, you know? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, it could be nothing. Right? But that those little moments matter. And I know for me in the beginning of our journey, it was not easy just to be honest. It was not easy. It was always like a problem, problem, problem. But then once I've learned, you know, they want the same from me. Yes. You know, they want me to be as positive to them, tell them the greatness that they're doing as well as I want the same when it comes to information about my son. And I think when you develop that then it's, it's just easier to talk to 'em. You know, they don't feel <laugh> resistant to go into the meeting cuz they like, okay. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you're fine.
Marsh Naidoo (21:51):
I understand that. No, for sure. But anyway guys are there any interesting events being planned for these next few months coming up
Katrina VanBuren (22:16):
So we have a virtual parent support group that Annette and I started where we wanted to do like this where we pretty much just any topic that we think is valuable as well as getting the topics from other family members. And we, our next one is coming up Thursday. We're talking about transitions transition through school, whether that's from what it would look like from pre-K going into kindergarten or kindergarten going into elementary, middle to high and then beyond high school and beyond. And again, it's not like that in depth. It's only an hour and a half, but it's just more, this is what to look out for. My son is in high school now Ms Annette's granddaughter is in high school. Yeah. So it's kinda like given our experience of what this looked like and what to kind of look for as they are going into those moments or if they already in there. So we have that one. As far as other engagements right now with the arc, I don't think we have anything else if so to be on our website.
Marsh Naidoo (23:17):
And what is that website?
Katrina VanBuren (23:21):
Www.Familyengagement tn.com
Marsh Naidoo (23:30):
Ladies are there any words of encouragement that y'all would like to end off before we leave today?
Annette Graves (23:42):
I just like to add, that's why family engagement is so important. The more the families are involved at their schools with their children, the less conflicts you're gonna have. And we have research that says that the more you're involved, the better your relationships you're gonna have with your, with the teachers, with the administrators, the less conflict that you're gonna have.
Katrina VanBuren (24:03):
And mine would be we kind of just touched on it, but you know, remember to be a, a great advocate for your child advocate. Don't argue, make sure they know the advocate does not mean come in like a mama bear. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> advocate for the things that your child may need. And also look at those procedural safeguards that is the most vital piece ever. They give it to us at every meeting and I know we get tired of getting that book, but <laugh> at least keep one and, and read it because it will guide you through your educational rights. And if you do not know, do not try to do it on your own connect with somebody.
Marsh Naidoo (24:41):
Well guys, thank you so much for your time today. All the best moving forward and hope to see you all sometime in the future.
Katrina VanBuren (24:52):
All right. Thank you again for having us.
Marsh Naidoo (24:54):
Thank you're so welcome.
Marsh Naidoo (24:57):
Thank you so much for listening along with us. We would highly appreciate a rate and review of this podcast episode on your podcast player. In addition to sharing the information, I would like to close off today's episode by honoring the memory of Judith Heumann. Judy was widely regarded as the mother of the Disability Rights Movement and passed away in Washington DC on March the fourth, 2023. Judy was at the forefront of major disability rights demonstrations and spearheaded the passage of many disability rights laws, including Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, IDEA Individuals with Disabilities Education Act and the ADA, the Americans with Disabilities Act. Judy's legacy lives on forever in her advocacy for the Disability Rights Movement, as well as her books, including "Being Human and Unrepentant memoir of a Disability Rights activist", which she wrote together with Kristen Joyner, as well as the young adult version entitled "Rolling Warrior". She was also featured in the Oscar-nominated documentary firm called Crip Camp A Disability Revolution. Judy Rest in Peace. We come to the end of another podcast and as always remember, get to the top of your mountain. This is Marsh Naidoo signing off.
