Special Fathers Network, Dad to Dad Podcast

Transcript

Marsh Naidoo (00:08):

Hi guys! Welcome to the Raising Kellan podcast. My name is Marsh Naidoo and I blog at raisingkellan.org where we curate resources for parents raising children with developmental delay and or disabilities. As always, remember, the information provided on this podcast is purely educational, and if you have questions pertaining to your specific situation, to always contact a trained professional. In today's episode 74, we chat with David Hirsh. David is founder of the Illinois Fatherhood Initiative, as well as host on the Dad to Dad podcast, which is part of the Special Father's Network. David's work is centered on breaking the cycle of father absence, so put your feet up, grab a cup of coffee, and get ready for some awesome conversation.

Marsh Naidoo (01:13):

Hi, David Hirsh. Welcome to the Raising Kellan podcast. We are so honored to have you here with today

David Hirsh (01:23):

I'm excited to be with you Marsh. Thank you for the opportunity

Marsh Naidoo (01:27):

Guys. David Hush is actually hosting an amazing podcast called Dad to Dad podcast. Now, this is part of the Special Father's Network and I cannot wait for y'all to hear more about the work David does. But before we delve into the Special Father's Network, which is a dad-to-dad mentoring program, specifically aim that dads raising kids with special needs or young adults with disabilities, I do want folks to get an essence, David, off your upbringing and perhaps create the story and lay the foundation as to perhaps the motivations that led you to the path of creating your nonprofit organization.

David Hirsh (02:22):

Well, thank you Marsh. So I'll try to keep it brief, but I'm a Chicago native, born and raised here. I jokingly say I barely left the state of Illinois. I went to the University of Illinois and Northwestern, so other been some business travel and some vacation. I literally barely left the state of Illinois. My wife and I have been married for 39 years. We are blessed to have five adult children. Their is 25 to 32 and we now have two grandchildren. So it was one we had our fifth child. I was feeling some pressure a little at work but more at home to focus on being a better husband, being a better father. And I stumbled across some statistics that I just was like in amazement about, and one of them was that there's some estimated 24 million kids growing up in father apps and homes, and if you do the math, that's about four out of every 10 in America.

(03:14):

And I thought, Oh my gosh, how could I have not known this the first 36 years of my life? So as I talked to friends no one seemed to be familiar with that statistic. So we decided to start a charity that was called, is called the Illinois Fatherhood Initiative. It still exists today, 25 years later, and the mission of that organization is actively engaging fathers in the education of their children. And one of the programs, I won't go into any detail but to say one of the programs is a writing program. It's called the Father of the Year Essay Contest And no exaggeration, we've had well over 425,000 Illinois kids K through 12 write essays to the theme, what My Father means to me. And it is very engaging. There's three different celebrations throughout the year, recognizing the sass, recognizing the dads, recognizing the volunteer readers as well as educators.

(04:09):

And that's where I sort of cut my teeth in the world of organizing a not-for-profit, helping get a not-for-profit off the ground. And about six years ago when our baby went off to college I felt like God was talking to me and what I heard was, you should do a cross country bicycle ride. And I'm like, Well, you've got the wrong guy because I don't own a bike. You could ride across the country. I'm not an endurance bike rider, but I couldn't shake the idea. I started talking with friends who I knew were endurance bike riders, learned a thing or two, do this, don't do that. I end up bike buying a bicycle trained for two months put a plan together, put a crew together, flew out to LA, started pedaling back to Chicago from Santa Monica, and basically roughly the old Route 66 turns out that it was 2,325 miles.

(04:59):

And if you do the math over 21 days, it was about 112 miles a day. And I was 54 years old at that time. And it was like one of these transformative experiences. I did something that I thought maybe was physically impossible, I didn't get hurt or die trying, and I found my voice. What I mean by that is that I was doing a lot of media, print, radio, tv, media to raise awareness and resources for other fatherhood organizations along the route. And when I got back, I ended up giving a TEDx talk. I ended up writing a book about the experience, about the advocacy for father involvement and a smidgen, just a smidgen about my own personal story, which is very simply, my parents got divorced when I was six. My mom raised me and my younger brother as a Chicago public school teacher, which is to say there were not a lot of resources.

(05:48):

And thank God for my maternal grandfather, Sam Solomon, who was there every step of the way for me through my age 39 when he passed away at age 93. He was my father figure growing up. So whenever anybody asked me about fathering or father influencers, for the most part I would always just gravitate to the glass being half full. I would talk about something positive in my life. I would talk about my grandfather, and I'm not proud of this, but I wasn't close to my dad. I witnessed that my dad was not close to his dad, my paternal grandfather, and I wanted to do something about that. So the title of the book is A Journey to Break the Cycle of Father Absence. The title of the TEDx Talk is why we need to break the Cycle of Father Absence. And the overarching narrative of the work that I do is to engage more fathers actively in the lives of their children, not just from a financial perspective. That's really what the state and most moms care about, but actively engage fathers physically, emotionally, and spiritually in their lives. That's what their kids really need. And then about five years ago, the focus of the second charity, the 21st Century Dads Foundation became creating what we know today as the Special Fathers Network, which is a dad-to-dad mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs.

Marsh Naidoo (07:08):

How does 21st Century dad the mainstream program work? David, how do you match guys up? I'm just curious about that.

David Hirsh (07:18):

<affirmative>. Great question. So 20 Century True Dad's Foundation is the charity. So when somebody makes a charitable donation, the money goes to that organization. And the signature program, like I mentioned, is the Special Fathers Network Mentor program. So what we've been doing the last handful of years is recruiting seasoned fathers. On average they have 10 or more years of experience raising a child or in some cases multiple children with special needs. And we keep a database of their information so we know where they live, if they're married or not married, how many children do they have, how many of those kids have special needs, what are the age of those children, what are the special needs? In some cases it's a singular diagnosis. In some cases it's a series of different diagnoses. And what we try to do when we have somebody raise their hand, a young father, somebody says they go to the website, they wanna be matched or they meet somebody, they get referred to us.

(08:15):

There's a whole different host of ways people might come in contact with the organization but somebody has to want to be mentored. You cannot force a mentor on somebody just because a young dad or young couple, raising a child with special needs doesn't mean you can say, Oh, I'm here to help. If they're not in the right frame of mind, if they're not looking for help timing's just not right. Thank God for GPS. That's probably saved a lot of relationships along the way. But more seriously, if you understand fundamentally that that's how men make decisions, we're fixers. We wanna try to figure out things on our own, which is a good thing. It's an asset in many aspects of our lives, but it can be a liability, right? Because if you're not willing to ask for help, if you're not willing to open up and acknowledge that maybe I don't have all the answers, really who suffers is your child, you're in a form of denial by not seeking resources.

(09:10):

Moms are so much better at networking and talking to people, talking to other moms about what's going on in their children's lives. So what all we're trying to do is create an avenue for dads to be in contact with one another, a safe environment. And the mentoring relationship, which is just one of the aspects of what we do, is to try to connect the more seasoned dad to the younger dad who has a child with, in a perfect world, a similar, if not the identical special need or the diagnosis. So we start with the diagnosis. We start with the gender of the child. We look for family structure. How many children are they married or not married? We look at ethnic groups, we look at socio-economic groups. And in perfect world we would match dads in the same geographic area because then instead of just being a virtual relationship by Zoom or text or phone, they might be able to get together face to face for a soda or cup of coffee and develop a one on one relationship, a more traditional relationship.

Marsh Naidoo (10:04):

That's phenomenal. But it's not only the peer of peer networking as such, right? You also have some other avenues that dad can connect fire. Tell us a little bit more about the virtual events that you guys hold.

David Hirsh (10:20):

For about a year and a half, we wanted to put on events, we called 'em the biweekly Zoom calls. We recorded all the episodes, and they live on the 21st Century Dead's YouTube channel. And they're on 24 different topics. So we've polled the dads in the network, we asked them, Tell us what topics are of most interest to you. And then we would organize a call every two weeks and we would just ask two or three of the seasoned dads in the network who had more experience, who could talk to various topics. And one of the topics is self-care, which is super important for every parent, not just dads to be healthy, not just physically, but emotionally and spiritually so that you can bring your A game every day. Cuz if you're not healthy, you're not gonna be able to be there for your spouse, for your child, or at work if those things were important to you.

(11:12):

Another topic that received a lot of recognition was respite and marriage. The importance of being able to take a little time on a consistent basis, whether that's a night a week, a weekend here and there or more time to reconnect with your spouse or the mother of your child from the dad's perspective. So respite and marriage is super important. Another topic that was very popular husband is siblings and family balance. Now, not all families have more than one child, but many do. And it's pretty common across the board that if you have say three children, that the child with special needs is going to require more than a third of your time, a third of your attention, a third of your resources. And I think most of us as parents wanna be equitable doesn't mean equal. You have to divide your day into three. I need to spend a certain amount of time with each of my three children.

(12:15):

If you have three children, but over a longer period of time, you wanna make sure that you're doing things as equitably as you can. But again, in the day to day experience for most families, raising a child with special needs, their child with special needs in some cases could be so demanding. It could be 80 or 90% of their time every day. And over a longer period of time, that lack of attention to your son or daughter who maybe doesn't have special needs could result in some unexpected outcomes. So we wanna address those issues like siblings and family balance as well. Anyway those are the biweekly Zoom calls that can be found on the YouTube channel. And another thing that we do from a resource standpoint is that dozens and dozens of our dads coincidentally, are also authors. So we have organized book readings and reviews, and these authors in many cases will be willing to do a Zoom call with the dads that have read the books, which is really a pretty cool thing.

(13:15):

And we have piloted this past year, what we call the Special Fathers Network Mastermind group, which is a group of dads. There was eight dads that met on a weekly basis Wednesday evenings from coast to coast. They range in age from 29 to 74, all different types of special needs. And they made a commitment to meet for 75 minutes every week. And we built in some time off, we actually hosted a retreat in Nashville so the dads can meet face to face. And we reviewed six books over the course of the 12 months, met with the authors, six, all six authors, and we do something called Dad in the Middle, which is an opportunity for a dad to on every third or fourth week basis to offer a question or tell about a challenge that's going on in their life and to have the other dads in the group respond.

(14:08):

And it's a way to help build relationships and accountability. And this group really gelled over the last 12 months, and we're just launching our second dad's mastermind group. And I'm really excited about helping create this safe space for dads to communicate. And you'd think, well, geez, the younger dads, the guys in their twenties and thirties would be the primary beneficiaries. But if you ask the older dads in the group, the guys that are more seasoned, they think they're an equal beneficiary, right? Because they feel great about giving back and helping these younger dads. But they're learning things too. They're being reminded of things that are important. So it's a wonderful experience. We also have some dad meetup groups. These are monthly experiences where dads come together on some of the same themes, reading some of the same books that we read in the mastermind group.

(15:04):

I neglected to mention that the Mastermind dads, No, you're gonna think this is insane, and it's not for everybody, but on average they paid a hundred dollars a month to participate in the mastermind group Marsh, that's $1,200 a year. They didn't see that as an expense. They saw that as an investment. That's true. And they're not able to get an experience like that where you're developing an intimate relationship with a core group of dads who you get to know really, really well. And I'm happy to report virtually all those dads met like 90% attendance and most of the dads signed up for a second year. That's just how enthusiastic they've done. So those are just a couple of the things. And you mentioned in the introduction that we host a podcast and I would say something that's impacted most of the families that are involved in the network, moms and the dads they're listening to the podcasts.

(15:59):

I had no idea what I was doing. Maybe you can remember way back when you first started your podcast. This isn't what I do for a living. I'm a financial advisor. But all you have to do is be a good listener, ask some good open-end questions and channel a little light on the interviewees story. And that's all I've been trying to do. So we have well over 200 episodes from dads all across the US, 12 different countries now, and most of 'em have a child or children with special needs. But we've interviewed a lot of moms and healthcare professionals, occupational therapists, speech therapists, et cetera. And we're just trying to put people in contact with different resources, inspire people with the positive things that are going on. And many of our dads, I don't know this has been your experience, Marsh, but many of the dads in their network, the guys that are more seasoned would say almost verbatim. I would not have asked for a child with special needs. But knowing everything I know now, I wouldn't change anything. That's a very profound statement.

Marsh Naidoo (17:05):

I know I, I've been tucking into the podcast and there was a rabbi for me, Israel that you talked to, describing his experience raising their child. And that's what I love about podcasts. It's easy accessible information. Parents can get on there while they're walking or working out, and it doesn't take as long to find the resources that could potentially help.

David Hirsh (17:33):

Yeah, well it's like making an investment. When you listen to podcasts, some people listen to podcasts for entertainment purposes. It's just a way to burn some stress off. But if you're a parent and your focus is raising your child or children and whether they have special needs or not I think we can all learn from one another. And what we try to do is shine a light on the organizations that the family and the podcast has benefited from. So it might be an organization like Joni and Friends Steve Bundy, who's also an author, wrote this amazing book. "Another kind of courage", hands down, one of the best books that any dad could read to be inspired about raising a child with special needs or you were referring to Kalman Samuels in Jerusalem. Yes, Seven children. Number two, Yossi, who's now 42 was the recipient of a bad vaccine.

(18:31):

And this is not a conversation about vaccines, good or bad. Do they impact kids? I can just say factually, most vaccines are very safe and they're not gonna have a negative impact. But occasionally, and sadly in Yossi's case, and they documented this, it took them nine years he was a recipient of a bad batch of vaccines. A number of kids died as a result of getting that vaccine. But Yossi lived. But Yossi went deaf and blind and was super hyperactive right after receiving the vaccine. And it put the family in a tailspin. They were out of control. And the mom, Malki who is the heroin in the story said, God, if you help my child, I will dedicate the rest of my life to serving other families, raising children with special needs. So Kalman, like you said, who was a rabbi, and they went on to have five more kids wanted to support his wife, and he helped raise tens of millions of dollars to build Shava, which is this beacon of light in Jerusalem, downtown Jerusalem, a seven-acre parcel land, a 12 story facility, which is state of the art that serves well over a thousand families serving children with special needs.

(19:49):

So if it wasn't for that tragedy that Yossi suffered, the family suffered, we would not have a Shava. It would not exist. So it's a more dramatic example of if life hand you lemons try to do something. And in this case, they didn't make just a couple pitchers of lemonade. They made football fields full of lemonade. And it's just an amazing story. And thank you for making reference to that one.

Marsh Naidoo (20:19):

David, I really want to unpack your TEDx presentation. Why do we need to break the cycle of father absence? Because whether you are raising a child that has a disability or not, this is something that globally affects all of us. Can you just please enlighten us more on this topic, sir?

David Hirsh (20:42):

Sure. So I gave this TEDx talk in October of 2015, and I opened the TEDx talk with a picture of myself and my grandfather. I was about six months old and he is super proud. I was the first grandchild, I was born on his birthday, and we were super close like I mentioned. And then I ended the TEDx talk with a picture of the two of us. I think he was probably 89 or 90 at the time. We were at a fundraiser, we're in our suits and ties. And the message I wanted to share is that 40% of the people in America, larger percent in different countries around the world, have experienced father absence. It's not something to be ashamed of. It's not something to sweep under the rug. We need to be open and honest about that. And remember I said that I was not talking about that publicly.

(21:41):

So when I gave that TEDx talk, which is about 18 minutes, I was as transparent as I could be. My dad was still alive at the time, so I needed to be very specific about what I said and how I said it, cuz I didn't wanna embarrass him. But there were some real issues that we experienced, and I'm not proud that we weren't close, but I thought it was important that he get to know his grandchildren, my five children during his life, and that they could have a relationship with them even though we didn't have a very strong relationship. So I would say the first thing about this issue of Father of absence is I have the utmost respect for single moms. My mom was one of those single moms. I watched her struggle on a daily basis from well before my age six. My parents were like cats and dogs fighting all the time.

(22:33):

The police were involved. I got dragged down to the courts when they were going through their divorce and then for custody battles. And it was just crazy stuff. But it's not like I was the only one. You learn that it happened with thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of kids, and it affects everybody a little bit differently, but it shouldn't be that way. So my overarching narrative, the focus of the work that I've been doing is to try to figure out how do we make sure that more dads are actively involved in the lives of their children? And again, from my perspective, I didn't have a good relationship with my dad. I witnessed it. My dad didn't have a good relationship with his dad. And that was the most important thing when I became a dad, was I was not gonna abandon the ship.

(23:20):

And I didn't know how difficult it's gonna be to raise one child, let alone five children. But we're in an intact relationship. My wife gets most of the credit for raising our children. I'm trying to be as involved as I can and as supportive as I can. And as it relates to the talk, I made reference to meeting people, being mentored by other fathers. Dr. Ken Canfield was one of 'em that I called out. He was the founder of the National Center for Fathering in Kansas City. And he was one that educated me, inspired me, challenged me to do something in Illinois, which became the Illinois Fathered Initiative. And I talk a little bit about the four characteristics that it takes to be a great dad in the TEDx talk. And they're very simple. It's commitment, it's love, it's patience, it's honesty. And to demonstrate the importance of the word commitment, I remembered I included a little video vignette of fellow by the name of Dick Hoyt

(24:25):

And most people would not recognize Dick Hoyt by name, but he's that guy that pushed his son, Ricky, who was as sped to quadriplegic with Cerebral palsy in 34 Boston marathons. Over a hundred marathons in total and 1200 races including six Ironmans. So I've admired Dick from a distance for the commitment that he made to his son Rick and his other two boys. And I think of him as a poster child for the word commitment. And after that not long after that, I got the courage to contact Dick and say, Hey, I'm doing this podcast. I'm wondering if you would mind if I interviewed you. And he was quick to say yes. He was interview number 11, that was more than 200 episodes ago now. And got to know him on a personal basis. I actually took a day off of work, flew to Massachusetts, rented a car, drove two hours to his house and was blown away. He didn't spend just 30 or 40 minutes with me. He spent three and a half hours and we're kindred spirits. Right? And I loved shining little light on his story. We got together a couple more times before he passed away, a year ago, March now. And those are some of the highlights from the TEDx talk. I hope that answers your question.

Marsh Naidoo (25:43):

Absolutely. David, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for joining us today, and thank you for the work that you do. Can we let the listeners know how to reach you and how to get into the resources offered by the Special Father's Network?

David Hirsh (26:05):

Sure. Well thanks for asking. For people that are interested in information about the Not-for-Profit, the website address is 21st century dads.org. You can send me an email at David at 21st century dads.org. You could go to my LinkedIn profile. I'm, I'm not a difficult person to get ahold of, and I'm more than happy to share resources or help point people in the right direction or provide them with whatever information they need, whether they're a mom or a dad, a grandfather or a grandmother. And I just wanna say thank you again, Marsh, for the extraordinary job that you do with your podcast. Shining a light on people's stories, inspiring people like you do.

Marsh Naidoo (26:58):

And David, I have to give a colleague of ours a quick shout out, Chris Krimitsos of Pods Expo. Thank you so much for connecting myself and David.

David Hirsh (27:13):

Yeah, well, let me sing Chris's praises too. I met Chris about three or four years ago in Orlando at one of his Pod Fest events, and it really helped take my podcasting experience to the next level. And what I really enjoyed was he probably had five or 600 independent podcasters together there in Orlando. This is pre Covid. And every time you turn around, you're standing next to sitting at the same table with another podcaster. And we're not in competition with one another. People are quick to share and say, What about this? What about that? And that's just a fertile environment that Chris has created for independent podcasters like yourself, like myself. And the world's a better place as a result of that.

Marsh Naidoo (28:00):

David, thank you, sir. And you have an awesome evening. All right.

David Hirsh (28:04):

Very nice to be with you Marsh. God bless you in the work you're doing.

Marsh Naidoo (28:08):

You too. David,

Marsh Naidoo (28:10):

Thank you so much for listening along with us today. If you would like to learn more about the work being done by David at 21st Century Dads, you can reach out to him at 21st Century Dads do org. If you appreciate the resources that are shared on this podcast, please leave us a rate and review on your podcast player. It would sincerely be appreciated. And as always, remember, get to the top of your mountain. This is Marsh Naidoo signing off.